Great! Just what I needed. Another backseat driver.
One of these days, I fully expect to open the medicine cabinet in my bathroom and see somebody checking out what kind of toothpaste and shaving cream I use. It sounds like a joke, but we’ve almost reached that point in our country, where the government wants to know more and more about every aspect of our lives. I’m shocked that they haven’t turned “privacy” into a hate word by now. Maybe the word “privacy” will just cease to exist after a while because the concepts that it stands for certainly have.
The latest form of spying on U.S. citizens comes from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which is attempting to make it mandatory for all new cars and light trucks to have black boxes installed in them. As you know, these event data recorders have been used for a number of years to discover what causes commercial airline crashes.
The devices, which are already in some cars, track the speed of a vehicle and reveal whether seat belts were buckled at the time of a crash and whether the driver used the brakes before a crash, as well as information about engine throttle and air bag readiness.
If a black box helps in the arrest of a drunken driver who plows into a swing set on a school playground, it would be difficult to argue against its usage. But why do I get the feeling that, like every other governmental intrusion in our lives, information from these black boxes will be used more often to spy on people the government is interested in than it will in getting dangerous drivers off the road?
Check out this article from ABC News, with a headline that reads, “Feds Want ‘Black Boxes’ in New Cars, But Who Will Be Tracking You?”
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/feds-black-boxes-cars-tracking/story?id=17918850
Privacy advocates are saying that proper safeguards need to be put into place to prevent spying on drivers by police, insurance companies and other agencies through vehicle black boxes. They want to know who will see the information contained in these data recorders, what it will be used for and if the vehicle owner will have the rights to the data.
What do you think about mandatory black boxes for automobiles? Good idea that may save lives, or another in an endless array of privacy violations? Let me know what you think.
What are you sheeple complaining about? You sound like you have rights to anything more than what our masters say you have. Our rights have been systematically chipped away for at least the past century and each new generation accepts it as business as usual and perfectly natural. It all gets sold as something that is what we need for our own good. But as usual, if something can be abused – it will.
Every car sold in the US since 2004 has a transponder system that handshakes at checkpoints along our interstates, highways, and even on city streets and at some intersections. Implementation, expansion, and operation of this computerized tracking network was and continues to be paid for by Homeland Security. It was forced upon automakers with the guise of ensuring that the firmware (operating system) of the vehicle computers maintain compliance with EPA standards. With the implementation of CANbus, this system can query data from any sensor or storage medium contained in the vehicles computer network. As harmless as it might sound, roadside checkpoints electronically query ananymous data via an unaddressed (it means all vehicles must respond) series of packet broadcasts requesting vehicle speed. Contained in the header of all vehicle responses is the vehicles VIN number, current Odometer reading, ECU firmware versions, ect. The messabe body contains a slew of other data, like how many occupants are detected and if they are wearing seatbelts. Homeland security justified the use of this data by claiming they can automate this tracking to keep track of the majority of people in the US, so they can concentrate manpower on ‘high priority targets’. The capabilities of this system supports automated speeding violation detection, taxation for the number of miles driven, and even being able to target for shutdown, any vehicle that they desire when it checks in on the network. Big brother is not only watching you, they are keeping really close tabs on where you go and how fast you get there. This is just the tip of the iceberg. What Snowden revealed is but a tiny fraction of the privacy abuses currently going on by our government! And those abuses grow more every day.
We are already being tracked and lissened to on our GPS and cell phones in the cars,cop cars driving by read your plates and intersection cameras take your picture.Do you think for one minute the new CHIP charge cards will not be able to do what check your alke level when touched and cross reff it if you are driving and allert the cops where who you are to collect more brandey barrel money.
2005 KiA Sedonna, where is it located in the vehicle? Can we remove it? Can it be modified?
I will continue to buy used cars and hope that I can avoid “black boxes” for a while longer.
Some vehicles have had these blackboxes for several years and insurance companies love them. They will use the information they get from them to get out of paying a claim. They will hit you with contributory negligence and not cover you. The other side in a lawsuit will use the info to lessen their payout if they can show you were partly to blame. Even if that was just driving five miles over the speed limit when their client ran a stop light. I’ll not knowingly have one in my vehicles.
A year or two ago I read of a proposal from Europe that every new car be equipped with a SIM card like mechanism. This SIM card function would be in a chip embedded in your drivers license. To operate a vehicle you would have to insert your drivers license into a slot before the engine would start. In addition a cell phone device, like a smart meter, would report the operation of the vehicle. Dont know what came of this proposal,
Wow. A long discussion about a black box with no mention of the ultimate automotive black bow. Google is developing a self-driving car and California has passed legislation maki bit legal to operate on its highways. The car is the black box! The next step is to outlaw cars operated by drivers so as not to endanger the autonomous cars. BWDIK
I agree with Jim A, This is a Prophetic Prophecy that has
already come to pass. They call it the black box, but actually it’s the Electronically controlled car made by Ford already to go when the streets are made ready to handle the car .So mean while they will install black boxes in you cars. note, the car is on the net and it’s prophecy that it will be shaped like an egg to carry 2-4 persons and with no controls to operate.
Unfortunately, our present government has proven time and time again they are not to be trusted. time either supports or exposes everyone.. the trial has already been held, and the proof has been undeniable. No Black Boxes. What they say does not and will not match actions.
Since I paid for the car (or am paying), the car and all its parts, including the EDR, belong to me. They are my private property and absent my consent, the police or anyone else should not be able to access the information collected by it unless they are able to obtain a search warrant. Of course, if falsely accused of something during an accident, the EDR data could also save your butt!
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/01/06/black-boxes-cars-edr/1566098/
Elected officials will probably be exemp, Supposedly to stop terrorists from stalking them etc ?
Not no But H__L NO!!
HELL NO. PUT A BLACK BOX IN MY CAR AND I’LL GO TO THE NEAREST PRIVATE AIRPORT AND INSTALL IT IN A A CESSNA. RETIERED AIRCRAFT TECH. AND FLIGHT ENGINEER. NO A LOT ABOUT BLACK BOX’S.
If being falsely blamed in an accident has got you worried, then a simple dash cam would be the answer. You have total control of when it goes on and off and nobody sees anything you don’t want seen anyway. So of course the gov is lying again. An on board black box isn’t needed. The only time I see it if any to be necessary is when you’re on public transportation.
What we need to do is act on the facts that
Barry – Obama for he was born in Kenya (Mammosa, spelled wrong and it was in 1960 not 61 in the USA.. Kenya at that time belonged to English Empire and the proof exist, Get him out of our government, period.
In a perfect world without “big brother” trying to control our every move, this would be prudent to be used in questionable vehicular deaths. But this isn’t a perfect world, so we must all be wary and fight every attempt to pry into our “free” lives. The question is: “how much longer are we going to let this government play games with our lives?” Time to vote in new, younger moral driven Patriotic Congressmen who love our country and get rid of the old pragmatic stick in the mud Senators. It’s time for the American people’s change! Don’t you agree?!
In my garage I have an entire 3 tier toolbox full of tools, meters, test equipment, and other devices, plus a very large library of maintenance manuals that date back about 40 years. I can maintain and repair vehicles as old as 60 years, and if you know where to find them, these “old” vehicles are actually very easy to keep running. On top of that, they don’t have “black boxes”, and the ignition systems (points, plugs, caps, rotors, and condensers) are virtually IMMUNE from EMP, either from nuclear detonation, or by a cop’s EMP transmitter. No GPS, either, unless you have a cell phone with a battery installed. And those are easily replaced with SW and CB radios, and hand-held “walkie-talkies” for short range (<30 miles) use.
These vehicles are cheaper to maintain and insure, if you know what you're doing. You'd be amazed at how many "modern day" mechanics and auto technicians don't have a clue as to how to set ignition points in a small block Chevy.
regarding the old small blocks, they were so easy to maintain, and just as easy to troubleshoot. I miss my ol’ 62 Impala, which got me way over 100 thousand miles, before it was rebuilt. nowadays, you can’t do much of anything without having specialty tools, I love to maintain my vehicles, but the modern era has done away with that , with exception of changing the friggin oil!!
I’VE RESTORED CARS AND AIRCRAFT FROM WWII. EMP WILL FRY A BATTERY.IF YOU HAVE A PRE 1973 CAR KEEP A CHARGED BATTERY COVERED WITH ALUMINUM FOII, FOR A BACK UP. KEEP IT OFF THE CONCREAT.
FYI Years ago, a large car battery maker placed two batteries in a shed. One on concrete and one on a shelf. After several months they were tested and found to be equal in loss of charge. LAL
Might not hold true in the coldest part of winter since the air temp below the shelf is probably going to be a lot warmer than the concrete pad during the day.
I used to keep cans of paint in a closet along an outside wall, un-insulated (used to be a carport). The cans on the bottom concrete pad were a lot worse, after a couple of years of sitting, than the ones on the shelves above. The ones on concrete were largely unusable even after removing the hard crust on top of the paint.
Makes you wonder about the “Cash for Clunker” program, doesn’t it? Did you know that a requirement of the law was that the car engine block from the car turned in be “disabled” – destroyed, whatever you want to call it, at the junk yard. So that those could never be rebuilt and used again, tightening up the market, so to speak. This would make you either choose from an old engine, which may or may not be viable, or a new one – which requires the computer to run the functions on it. I wonder if the black box will be wired in as a necessary component – as in “will not function without it – ever”
You people are totally nuts if you think the black box is just an idea, they have been in all the cars for at least 20 years now! this is nothing new! it has been done and you have been watched for a long time now. you have no idea how you have been watched and recorded for all these years and now you think that they MIGHT do this…….WAKE UP its time to take back our country. http://www.operationamericanspring.org Join us and stop this shit from happening!
RON. THE BLACK BOX DOES NOT TELL THE COPS WHERE YOU ARE, OR WHAT YOUR DOING. THE BOX THERE TALKING ABOUT IS LIKE A TRANSPONDER ON AN AIRPLANE. THEY KNOW WHERE YOU ARE ON THE SCOPE IN THE CONTROL TOWER. THIS BOX WILL NO IF YOU FART IN YOUR CAR. GET A CLUE BEFORE YOU SPOUT OFF WHAT YOU HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT WHAT A BLACK BOX DOES.
Well, you’re right unless you have an activated ON Star system (not a blk box) which does know where you are. If your vehicle has that, of course they can shut you down, which is a good thing if someone steals your prized vehicle.
anyone ever wonder about the rf chip in credit cards now or hay what about e-z pass they know just lead a boring life then when you want to go someplace leave it all home and take a chance of getting a ticket for no docs. on you small price to pay for some privacy
I like the idea of having a dash cam in my car, for my protection in the event of a auto collision. However, the dash cam is only welcome if I select it, if I have it installed, and only I have access to it’s information.
We have to come up with a way to disable their system. After all, it’s the American way1
WRAP IT IN ALUMINUM FOIL. THAT WILL BLOCK THE SIGNAL.
I doubt that the info from those boxes will be used except in cases where someone is under investigation, the sheer volume of data will overwhelm the resources of any government agency. However, it surely will be used by manufacturers and insurance companies to blame the drivers for accidents and keep them from paying claims.
ATT, the sheer volume of data would make a generalized ‘1984’ privacy invasion impossible. The problem is – Who might you piss off that might decide to start an investigation phishing for any bit of compromising data on you? If at a political speech you yell “You Lie” what portion of the government might be used to destroy you?
It will routinely be used by cops & insurance companies to troll for evidence of impairment or bad driving. The insurance companies are prime movers on this so thay can have an excuse to deny claims, or threaten you into settling for less:
“Well, your car is definitely damaged, but the Black Box dump indicates that you often drive impaired, or at least recklessly. But if you settle for this amount, we won’t have to pass this along to other insurance companies or the cops ….”
In the hierarchy of pure sleaze, insurance companies rank right up there with trial lawyers and proecutors.
unless we the people stop the government from interfering with the citizens of this country and let them go on about there daily lives we will always have this black cloud over our heads our rights are being snatched away faster than you think
I think it is time to leave this country if one can afford to do so.
How does the idea of boycotting the purchase of a new car if the boxes are installed , until they stop installing them and make the industry pay to have the boxes already installed, removed ? The auto industry will loose big time and insurance companies would make less money by covering cars which are going down in price, which will bring down premiums ? It should only take a few weeks of these new cars sitting on the car lots, to get this stopped. Keep the car you now own for as long as it takes !
It would be a very good thing if Bill’s idea were put out on all social media outlets and it may not even take three weeks.I’m not savvy on such things so someone take the ball and run with it !!! We can set the net on FIRE !!
Unfortunately, the sheep will simply plunk down their money and buy whatever crap the automakers roll out each year.
If someone had told us 30 years ago that the government would be driving the train on engine design & styling thru Federal regulation, we’d have laughed at them. But just look at what we’re paying for laughably tiny little pieces of crap that cost half as much as a house, and will break the bank on repairs …. where engine or transmission repairs would commonly run into the thousands, and it would be almost impossible for the average owner to do even minor repairs himself.
The minute they start sticking silicon chips into something, it’s the beginning of the end for that product, and the price goes thru the roof. Check the latest washers & dryers.
Since the discussion has already moved to the merits of recording and storing this personal info, the “folks” have already lost. That’s how the Statists do it. First they raise the idea, as ridiculous or unconstitutional as it may be, from which discussion begins and compromise soon follows. The law or regulation is implemented, most often in a less egregious form than initially offered. The “folks” then turn their focus to the next battle against these Marxist Morons and the State tightens up the original laws in the dark of night. These kinds of freedom robbing ideas must be dismissed as unconstitutional right up front, or else.
There are already basic black boxes but now, in their estimation, do not gather enough info about you. Therefore the newer version will gather speed, breaking, location and other private info. That will be adopted, against the will of the electorate and then watch for the next version of the black box, in a few years, which will listen to hear what is said, was anyone emotional, was there a “road rage” incident etc., take videos and on and on. You all know the mantra of the Statist; some is good, more is better and too much is just about right.
It’s either yes or no folks, once you enter into the discussion it’s over.
By the way, does anyone think these things come free. A large part of the increase in autos over the past 30 years is federal regulation. A nicely optioned full sized Chev could be bought for $4500 30 yrs ago. A comparable model, now much smaller and lighter, would be in the %35,000 range today. Is it really that much better?
More importantly, does anyone really think this info will be secure. Who will look at it, Tell me it won’t be hacked. Gov’e and financial websites are routinely hacked. What about the Freedom of Info Act requests people will be making about you?
Whenever you make your own decisions about who or what will record or have access to ANY of your private info, you must assume it will ultimately be available to everyone.
From my point of view, I would like to thank them for giving me an opportunity to get rich in my declining years by clearing out data that is destined to annoy those well heeled individuals that do not like Big Brother. The more automation they put in, the opportunities spring out to allow getting rich. I know one individual that has a BMW that has been modified to operate efficiently by European standards…But of course, Big Brother initially loaded it up with software that did not allow the engine to develop its full potential. This is the type of individual that will eventually break Big Brothers Testicles… I positively have an orgasm thinking about the money to be made pulling Big Brothers fangs. This includes having GPS reports that put one in a “Safe” area, rather than a Den of Ill repute or your main squeezes apartment, ignore cops transmitted shutdown electronic orders, report speeds below little old ladies vehicles sedate jaunts to church, trims mileage to reduce tolls, tells tollgates that you have paid etc…
All new vehicles in USSA 2014, and later, already have this. While the people slept, their so-called elected representatives in D.C. passed this into law
No black boxes. I think it might be too late to stop this or anything else the government wants to do because we have let them get away with too much and they now have the so called BIG HEAD syndrome and are going to do what ever they want because we haven’t been more active in keeping them under control. So they can do anything they want. In order to stop this government from doing what they please we would need to replace every single person because they are all Inco hurts republican and democrats. There is no way to accomplish that. A new person would go in with the intentions we want but then they will turn him to their side and he will be no different at the end. Were so screwed!!!!!!
Jerome Kraemer
We would like to have information printed that shows a black box and instructions to disarm it .
I know of NO LAWS that require me to have a black box in a car that I bought and paid for.
Yeah, but it will instantly void your warranty.
We’re screwed, basically, if the EPA Nazis in Washington require it. It requires no law — just an EPA regulation or a Presidential decision.
Not that violating the law bothers Obama anyhow.
If I get a speeding ticket will I be able to contest it using the data in the black box? That would be good. If they can give me a speeding ticket by email because of the black box with no live officer there or pictures? That would be very bad especially if my auto mechanic was road testing my vehicle checking for vibrations at certain speeds.
Just remember…if you buy an “energy saver” SMART appliance for your home, office, BOL, etc…these item TRACK you through the GOV “smart grid”!! The regime can click on and see what you are using, eating, etc, and determine if you are not eating “right” or using too much electric. Then they can turn off your fridge, heat, fan, etc, or screww with your insurance (if you can get any), for eating “different!! Buy OLD appliances that are not “smart”. I think that is smart.!!!
Our insurance company is offering lower rates if we have these installed in our older cars. Sure, your rates might go down a little, but that’s only if you drive within thier guide lines. If you don’t you know damn well your rates will shoot up. No thank’s !
No black boxes—Jim M.
I don’t want anymore government- want less government- in my life. No black boxes!
As a fatal accident reconstuctionist these boxes are invlauable in determening what occured. Black boxes don’t save lives they tell us why someone died. They tell us a great deal of vital information that we were not there to wittness. I hear everyone being worried about being tracked yet they have Lowjack or OnStar or teir cell phone. The black box is not going to add anything that’s not already being tracked. It will help reconstruct accidents.
Many of your vehicles already have chips in the keys that spill the beans to your mechanic. How about “SNAP SHOT” from Progressive. Talk about spying. That is a the biggest invasion of privacy I have ever seen, granted you have to be dumb enough to install it.
Travis:
If I am dead I don’t need this vital info. Let the insurance cos. earn thier money. I will not buy a car with tracking unless I know how to disable it. Hey mechanics, here is a new source of income for you. I don’t have Lowjack, I don’t have Onstar, and if my old flip phone dies I will buy one of the throw away phones under a fictious name. I have been working on cars since the 1950’s. It is no ones business where I have been and I fully intend to keep it that way. Some of us old farts are somewhat independent.
well if they PAID 100% for my vehicle, and whatever vehicle I wanted… then sure by all means.
But if I’m paying for it? um, no. I will not pay for something like this. What’s next, recorders you have to have for your home when you purchase it, so they can prevent crimes/terrorism?
Sure, if the government paid for my $250k home then fine I’d allow it as I’ve got nothing to hide. Same for my vehicle as I don’t drive drunk nor speed more than 5-10 over the limit.
But otherwise they can kiss my arse. I’ll design and build something that will let owners bypass these devices if they ever become mandatory. And it will fill congressional email with spam every time they submit their information lol.
OUR GOVERNMENT CAN NO LONGER CAN BE TRUSTED PERIOD! IT HAS STOLEN TOO MUCH POWER FROM THE STATES AND VOTERS.
GIVE A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF POWER TO THE STATES AND ONLY THE POWER
UNDER THE CONSTITUTION TO THE FEDS. MAKE SURE THE SECOND AMENDMENT
IS UNDERSTOOD BY EACH NOMINEE OF THE SUPREME COURT BEFORE NOMINATION!
They are not at all need and should not be mandatory. They will only make the price higher and they cost to much now.
one more thing I have to disconnect……oh well….wish I were about 500,000 people….I would in Washington dc right now…..helping them all pack their belongings….
I posted on another surveillance topic, Traffic cams and ticketing without having to be pulled over! This however is probably going to lead to having a transmitter like On-star and some GPS systems but will probably ‘if made mandatory’, will include a camera and microphone! Also, if you get pulled over rather than photographed by a traffic cam, the police officer “WILL’ eventually be able to scan the device in order to write you up for every violation he can to help keep funding that big money maker of your local, state and federal court system! Oh, and Semi’s are being regulated more and more, some can now be shut down from the dispatch office!
The information will at first be used for seemingly benign purpose’s. But information is power and power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
I have a sneaky suspicion that the next step will be for the govt. to find a way to tax us for our mileage like the one democratic senetor wants. Once something like this is in our cars all bets are off.
Actually, some places (CA, for example) are already trying to do that for a few years now, because they aren’t getting enough “road tax” revenue from fuel sales due to all the hybrid and electric vehicles there.
This is the lead in for the govt to start taxing us on our milage. I forget which Democratic senetor wants this, but this would sure make it a little closer to happening.
And of course the b**tards will make it integral to the car computer so you can’t remove or wire around it. OF COURSE.
Undoubtedly, and that would certainly void your entire warranty, too. It’s in the company’s interest to keep you buying more expensive, useless sh**, so they’ll push this just as hard as the government will.
The more expensive, complex crap they can hang on their silly plastic cars, the more they can charge you for it, the more they can charge you for repairs, and in this case they will have “evidence” of abuse or reckless driving to use an excuse to void your warranty, too.
“Yes, your transmission is under the 50,000 mile mark, but since you’ve been hotrodding the thing and jamming the gears all over the place, it isn’t covered under the warranty. Have a nice day.”
I say, SCREW The Warranty, I’ll be better off taking my chances Without it!
By the way, I DON’T Have Oscama care either!
Let’s see… the big car manufacturers are constantly making smaller, less powerful, vehicles and now the S.S. (surveillance state) wants to record every aspect of our mobility. What’s next… being told one can only drive on certain days for a limited distance? Yet, I’m not aware of any imposition on those massive 18 wheelers that could squash a Leaf, or Smart car, like a bug. Makes ya feel like they’re really concerned about your welfare, doesn’t it?
William, which 3 minutes would you want to record? The 3 mins before the accident, during or after?
How about a continuous recording loop of 15 mins, that overwrites itself each 15 mins in a loop?
How about a continuous recording from the time you start your car to the time you shut it off, and it records over itself next time you start the car until you turn the car off again, say with 1 hour max recording and it starts over again. It would ALWAYS hold the last hour of driving info.
BUT.. we do NOT WANT the recording being broadcast at any time. It would be accessible like the airplanes black box, only if needed after an accident.
with this device we wouldn’t need police or detectives now would we……we got the boxes to replace them all….
Not only no but h**l no. Progressive is already trying to get people to use their little device. Can you imagine what they will do to you insurance rates if they get to track your every move real time. Oh they say it can save you money. Sure, if you drive like a 70 year old granny. It is time to put a stop to the surveillance state and restore freedom and privacy rights.
One of the many outrageous methods being introduced as something good while being used to put all the puzzle pieces together to control any and everyone. Information is power and that is what it is all about- POWER. What a pity to see out nation fade into nothing more than a communist state!
If it is imposed as mandatory, it should be limited to record 3 minutes of current data – no archiving over long term.
Aircraft black boxes are only accessed after the crash. This data should only be accessible in the event of an accident that causes injury or loss of property.
I feel they would be good if they only use them if there is a crash. Knowing the way our Government is abusing their powers I feel they would use it for more than the intended purpose. The government has gotten out of control and the sad part of it is we elected these idiots I.to office to work for our good not to make themselves look good
As a disabled victim at age only 38, of 3 auto accidents, now 49 yrs old, I myself feel yes the black box would be good knowledge in a crash in my 3 cases. BUT, I totally disagree with a persons violation of privacy also !!!! What has this world come to ? A Damn Shame !!!!!