What the other solar ‘experts’ won’t tell you
I bet you’ve seen a lot of those solar kits and products out there, there’s a bunch of them. Of course, I believe that Power4Patriots is the best possible system for really breaking the shackles of the power company and truly becoming independent.
The reason I believe that is that none of those other kits actually tell you how to wire the system together (plus not one of those guys actually live with off the grid, or even on solar, like I do).
In fact they seem to gloss right over the most important part of the system: how to tie it all together.
That’s why you have me.
In this video my friend and fellow off-grid patriot Kriss walks you through how he completely wired his system together: solar panel array, disconnects, batteries, charge controller, inverter and backup generator. He ties it all together.
Its critically important to understand how all this goes together. A lot of people struggle with why we wire things in series and parallel. The theory is simple: wiring things in parallel keeps voltage constant, but adds amperage; wiring things in series keeps amperage constant but adds voltage.
Often times in wiring solar power systems we need to keep the voltage constant: say when going from the 24V battery bank to the 24V inverter. So we can wire things in parallel to keep this voltage constant.
Other times we want to add up voltage. We do this often with the solar array itself, also with wiring a solar panel together with solar cells. Higher voltage travels through wiring more efficiently, losing less voltage along the way (given that the size of the wire is sufficient). So often times we will wire solar panels, and solar cells, in series to get that voltage as high as possible.
After we do this we often have to knock that voltage down so that we can wire it to a 24 or 48-volt battery bank. We can do this with a special charge controller called an MPPT controller. This will allow us to have a 100V solar panel array, and 24-volt battery bank.
I hope this is helpful in understanding how we put these systems together. Stay tuned for more on solar panel systems.
I am looking for a solar company in Minnesota Twin cities area to install solar panels on our house how do I find the right one for us
To ensure that you have power in a black out situation you should install “Back up” solar system. Or at least part of your solar sys should be used to charge your battery bank (at least 305 Amp Hours) and then “split off a few of your more critical circuits from your main elect. panel, to power a separate circuit breaker panel that feeds these “critical” loads directly from your batteries through an inverter. (Cable systems all over the US do this at 100% of their load.)
That way if the grid goes down you are still able to run everything on your critical circuits from your batt pack, which is now being charged by your solar panels. When the grid comes back up, your grid tie disconnects the solar from charging your battery pack and the grid takes over charging your batt pack while your solar is busy sending electricity back to the power company…Yea!..
There was some useful information here but I think people need a better understanding of the economics. For about $10K it’s possible to get a unit installed on your house that is UL listed and powerful enough to do an average house for 4 people. If you choose the right manufacturer… (unfortunately Chinese) the system is guaranteed for 25 years from degradation or malfunction. At current prices a 10k watt system will pay for itself in 8 years by just not having an electrical bill. Thats 17 years of no electrical bills guaranteed after the system is paid off. I’m all for self reliance but for the price of a used car you can get it installed. Doing it yourself has some benefits but theres a difference between doing car repair and making one from scratch. Same thing with this..
Hi Frank
What do you think od Nickle Iron batteries for off grid solar? Jack S.
I really wanted to say “Nickel Iron Batteries”.
I’m looking at a method of using “any old alternator” & there’s millions just laying around…lol…Too
turn them with a belt or sprocket(a small one to make more RPM’s). This alternator method can
charge 12 V Batteries & you knoe it has all the stuff it in to charge a batter fully & correctly. You
shouldn’t need all the Inverters and stuff to charge you batteries with these? I may be Wrong so
let me know if I’m off tract. I don’t have money for a bunch of panels! And what id the sun isn’t shining? A bike could be a means to charge with? But you’d want a “Large Sprocket on bile &
small sprocket on alternator to pump the “RPM’s” up & charge faster!?!? Help me if you have an
idea…I’m here to learn & share…..Thanks, digginya
Automotive “alternators” (and older generators) require a minimum of 750 rpm to begin producing enough power to supply power to the electrical system of your vehicle and 900 rpm to recharge the battery after starting the engine. Drive pulleys and gearing may be a possible solution as well as connecting the system to your “bike” (hellova commitment). More torque is required to turn a larger pulley (or gear) driving a smaller pulley (or gear). Keeping these balanced may prove more dificult than worth the effort, but I would love to hear of a success story.
Sorry, just realized the stated RPM’s are engine RPM’s. The drive pulley on the engines crank shaft is considerably larger than that on the alternator, so there is still some additional math to work out.
What would you recommend for a 70 year old grandfather, who is fascinated with setting up a solar system for the home; but has not the skill or physical ability to take on this task. What would it cost me to have someone install an inexpensive (if there is such a thing) solar power kit. Maybe, such an endeavor is beyond my financial resources to pursue and maybe too late in life to be worthwhile.
The 70-watt solar power kit you sell in your shop includes 40 3×6 solar plates. The video that comes with your P4P System shows shows building a 70 watt panel using 36 plates in a 4×9 grid. Are 4 of the plates in the kit not intended to be used?
Here’s a thought and what I have done with the “extra” parts. Test each solar cell with a volt/amp meter in the same light. Select from the shipment (in this case 36) the best performing. Store the remainder in the event you manage to damage one during assembly or if you acquire 9 – 40 cell kits you can construct a 10th panel provided none are damaged during assembly.
Is anyone familiar with the Goal Zero solar power system? I bought a Yeti 1250 with (8) 30 inch panels. They say it will recharge in about 5 hours and can run fridge, TV, and another appliance for about 12 hours. Is this a good choice for novices to electricity? It’s portable.
Thank you, I work with batters ever day, but most people would not know this stuff. I’m going to go to this system in Jan. When I move to the desert. L will watch for more on the panels
I’ve heard that the batteries to store the energy generation are very expensive and large. How can I get off the grid without spending a fortune for the storage components?
any ideas for A/C when living off grid as i do in East Texas where our summer temp. may reach 94 degrees?
thanks
One solar company told me that most central AC is too powerful for solar because the compressor causes a surge. A window unit might work on some systems.
Suggestion for East Texas cooling. Investigate alternative cooling methods like used in Austin green tour homes.
I would consider a ‘swamp cooler’ ie: geothermal. You’ll need an old coil/radiator, a small circulation pump and an old furnace blower. Bury shielded copper tubing. Probably want to be at least 3′ to the top of the shielded copper. Make a nice big loop in the yard bringing it back to the starting point. The ground will absorb the heat as the water runs through it. I’ve not done this myself yet but am very intrigued by the idea. Many resources available online. Good luck!
i saw were a video stated. a power company wouldn’t buy the power that you create if the panels are built by the home owner ie. ul listed. i latter saw that anything that’s operates/generates dc voltage need not be ul listed. is that true or does that only pertain to the controls that combine the two together… ie. solar power feeding grid power.
That’s true, Dale. The power companies will only buy power if all of your parts are UL listed, however, regulations do not mandate that for your own, internal use.
Hi Frank.You are so good at following up. I bought yout book. So, even though I am a woman mechanical idiot, I get what you are saying. There is supposedly a good, reasonably priced company in Seattle, called, West Seattle Natural Energy. I was going to see what they come up with. i was going to try and do some of it myself but I am 66 (in good health) except I found out I have to have a hysterectomy. My husband has cancer and I pretty much have to do most of work around house. I hope they have something. We are on 21/2 acxres, face directl South,but have a flat roof-not sure how that will impact things but I guess I will find out. Thanks for all your wondeful ideas.Il ove the old freezer as the root cellar. Right now I am taking a Certs class and am enjoying it. Get to learn how to use my new fire extinguisher from Fire Department. Instructor said that if one person had a fire extinguisher in Sandy Hurricane and put out the fire, before it got started, all those burned down homes Staton Islane ould have been saved. I guess most want to be victms rather than be pro-active. I am just overwhelmed right now trying to get a garden and be self-sufficient with no help. But I believe where there is a will, there is a way. and hopefully things willork out for my prepping. thanks for all your advice and help & advice. Dawn Remington ( I save all your emails.)
Thank’s Frank, another good job.
When you live in a rain forest, your solar panels match your tan lines. Little to none. Still looking for a power solution that would work for us. I did enjoy this article even if it is not a solution for us. Thanks Frank. I will get a small unit going so we can at least have lights on.
24 volt ? is that a more efficient system than 12 volt ? are batteries readily available as are 12 volt batt’s ?
To those who asked about making a system survivable by EMP, solar panels in use will not survive EMP. And charge controllers and inverters will also probably not survive. The only solution I know of is to have extra solar panels, charge controllers, and inverters in a Faraday cage ( a metal container) that will shield the electronics from EMP, and to replace burned out components after EMP.
Is there any way to protect/shield a solar set-up in the event of an EMP or coronal mass ejection?
Would storage harm solar panels during prolonged storage?
My accolades to Kriss for a very nice job explaining a complex system in terms any of us can understand. I particularly like the fact that he explained “everything” and added his own experience in the process. Nice job! Thanks.
Frank Bates
first project, can use 64 6×6 cells.. what do they call the ones that are prewired . or what ever you call it. It appears this kind are easier for a beginner to wire.
Pre-tabbed solar cells
Need advice on what type of cells to buy for my first project. There are many and some should be better than others. Quality and ease of wiring important.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Bought 4 large solar panels made in USA and inverter plus charge controller. Trying to learn this stuff fast, should be able as I worked for the electric company 44 years and have some idea how to tackle this project. Hard to find equipment not made in China and that tickes me off real good. Got a couple of items made in Texas where I live. Off grid installation for me, even have duplex outlets next to the ones fed from electric company-completely separate. Some ebay sellers make statements in their adds that somewhat conflict with others comments in lengthy articles so I am constantly deciphering just what they mean to say. Out of city so I don’t have to battle them. Have natural gas generator also which goes thru selector switch so I can just switch over but the solar off grid system is my idea of how to back up the need when the big boys toys break down. Then there is EMP / CME from the sun. WHAT NEXT voltage mites? For some good panels search ebay seller FRED480V
Watch out for Fred480v… If you order from him expect a delay in shipping and if you complain he will cancel your order without explanation… He did it to me and since he is an eBay power seller you cannot leave negative feedback…
Joe Gordon mentioned the UL rating. I am in the city and would have to connect to the grid, I am assuming then that I cannot have DIY solar panels on the grid?
If that is the case, what pre-made solar panels do you recommend ?
Ronnie
Ronnie,
You could still use DIY panels if you were doing something separate – like a shed or pergola. But yes, if you want to connect to the grid, you do need to use UL approved panels. Take a look locally. If you are connecting to the grid, I recommend you make buddies with your local solar panel installers/solar friendly electricians — you’ll want their advice during install anyway.
I read the comment from Joe Gordon. This is a common misunderstanding of what is going on. This idea of “getting on the grid” is NOT what you want to do. Get this: we are often told that “PG&E or “the government” or the state, will pay 1/2 the installation cost of solar. Notice they insist that you use their approved contractors AND you must remain on the grid! What is actually happening is this:
The power grid is not subsedising your solar power. By “paying half” of the cost of installation, PG&E is making your home a mini power plant. “But they dont sell as much electricity to me…RIGHT? Right! The power you “conserve” is not going to make the planet “green”. You and your neighbor’s power that is “not used” by your residential location, is then diverted “by using the grid” to be sold as commercial power. Commercial power sells for 3 times as much for the same electricity. So you see, they aren’t subsidising you, you are subsidising THEM! Why build a power plant that costs billions of dollars when you can get cheap solar power and ALSO get the homeowners to PAY FOR HALF OF IT!
Charlie, I’ve also read that residential solar systems connected to the grid are required to shut down during blackouts, so not even the homeowner can benefit from his investment when he needs it the most. The requirement is supposed to prevent electrical feed to the grid, which would endanger repair crews. This problem is easily fixed with an automatic crossover switch, which is standard equipment for conventional generator use. However, since the government or power company is involved in grid-connected solar setups, they make the rules. So when the electric utility is down, so is the homeowner, just like everyone else. It stinks.
Can one of you experts confirm this pitfall?
This is true! I’ve seen folks with manual switches, others with automatic switches. But you will definitely want a way to unlink from the grid.
This may be more effort than profitable, therefore I doubt much imputus for
initiative, but nonetheless I’ll give it a shot.
Since DIY solar panels are not UL rated (a grid requirement) this can only be
accomplished at considerable cost. Since programs are in place for consumers to
adopt solar with imputus from the government, the government should make a
provision for DIY panels from the standpoint of cost effective approval for
complying panels to be grid tied. This could also expand the entire industry.
Next, it is common place that utilities (who really think home solutions are a
pain) only tie because they are forced to. They further want to be assured of
non-operation if the grid goes down, so you can’t operate by just solar. Thus
your panels are useless in a power outage emergency. I see their point-saftey.
There should be a fail-safe mechanism that cuts you off the grid in the event
power supplied by the utility goes down that can only be fixed by the power
company or a licienced electriction.
Next, since grid-tied systems are the perponderance of new installed systems,
blemished UL-approved panels could be sought out for public distribution at
considerable savings to the consumer by you. You then become possibly a one
stop source for such solar panels. Inventory might be sporatic at first, but a
supply chain could be developed. This and discounts on expensive componets
through cooperating sources in drivable regional hubs and major metros could be
offered. In short, you can be mainly an idea guy, or a real solution. Which do
you want to be?
Sincerely,
Joe Gordon
Hi; I live in southern Ontario & I am interested in building a solar system of some kind. I would possibly like to begin with a panel that would be able to heat my double car garage.
Where can I get the solar cells & equipment to build this unit, & what would the costs be? Are there places in Ontario that you might know of where the parts could be purchased? Would it be possible to add to it later?
I used to be a licensed electrician so am familiar with circuitry, etc.
Thanks Frank Roth
Hey Frank,
A small project like this is perfect to try out your new Power4Patriots skills. I’ve never been to Ontario, so I can’t help you with local suppliers. An online search or a call to a local green builder should be all you need to locate your parts.
This is great, but how do I get ahold of these parts from Power4Patrios? Another thing is, if we would get hit with a EMP bomb, what will it do to our solar system? If we would happen to survey it.